Posts by drew sagan

watchtower library 2009 is available for download in english and spanish on this site: www.watchtowerlibrary.blogspot.com.. soon also in portuguese, and maybe in french e germany..

Ambiguities surrounding the enforcement of Watchtower rules

by drew sagan in

i could write a good bit on this topic, but thought i would simply open this up for discussion.

here are a few things to think about:.

- the watchtower has no fundamental writing that it turns to as its foundational text.

drew sagan

Another interesting point. Because many rules and procedures are contained in the "living document", members and enforcers have the option to choose from rules that contradict each other.

For example, depending upon which Watchtower magazine you read, contact with DF'd people should either be very strict or less than strict (I believe there was an article in the 70's that loosened the rules).

In this case people can pick and choose the rules they want. As long as their choices to not bother the enforcers, or go unnoticed by them, they can continue in their practice.

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Ambiguities surrounding the enforcement of Watchtower rules

by drew sagan in

i could write a good bit on this topic, but thought i would simply open this up for discussion.

here are a few things to think about:.

- the watchtower has no fundamental writing that it turns to as its foundational text.

drew sagan

I'd say that outside of the "living document" - of "current publications" there are a few definitive texts or rulebooks. The infamous 'Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock' does contain definite rules as well as so called guidelines. Other books like 'Organized to Accomplish Our Ministry' and the 'Branch Procedures Manual' also contain definite codes of conduct and procedural rules.

Good point. Most of what is considered in those books is procedural in nature, thus having a direct impact on rule enforcement.

Of the three you mentioned, only the 'Organized' book is available to all members. From what I recall, the content was very procedural in nature (hence the title!) but it also did contain rules.

One thing that always interested me was the way the Elders (i.e. enforcers) went about their tasks. In many ways it appeared to me that the idealism some Elders have will actually get in the way of stricter enforcement. In this case, the Elder wouldn't be bothered by being more strict, but his idealism has led him away from a place where he can make that decision. For example, in my own experience (and from others have written on this board) Elders can sometimes be naive when investigating a case. Thinking that a "long time brother" has gone apostate isn't necessarily the first thing that comes to their mind (although so many hoping to fade seem to worry about this more than is necessary).

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Legal Experts, please read my question. Thank you!

by asilentone in

jw
friends

is it blackmail if i send very incriminating pics to someone without any words?.

drew sagan

The very act of contact through the method described enters a grey zone in which the threat of blackmail could possibly be inferred. The individual receiving the photograph is very likely to believe a blackmail threat is coming and may contact his lawyer soon after it is received.

I would not venture down this road if I were you. Why take on unnecessary conflict, even if it may not bring about legal consequences? If the individual is able to figure out you did this you could be opening yourself up to all kinds of retribution.

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Ambiguities surrounding the enforcement of Watchtower rules

by drew sagan in

i could write a good bit on this topic, but thought i would simply open this up for discussion.

here are a few things to think about:.

- the watchtower has no fundamental writing that it turns to as its foundational text.

drew sagan

I could write a good bit on this topic, but thought I would simply open this up for discussion. Here are a few things to think about:

- The Watchtower has no fundamental writing that it turns to as its foundational text. Instead, teachings and rules are shaped by a "living document" via a collection of "current publications". Because of this, some rules and regulations contained in older publications may or may not apply.

- Given the flexible nature of these rules, enforcers (Elders, DO, CO, etc) have some discretion in how the rules are applied. Some rules may be applied in a rather uniform way across most congregations, others may not.

- The time difference between the creation of a WT rule and its appearance in "current publications" may affect the degree to which it is enforced. The YMCA rule comes to mind.

So what are some rules that you think result in mixed outcomes? Are there certain conditions that encourage or discourage enforcement? Do you think this ambiguity effects the kind of sanctions Elders bring down on those who break the rules?

I have some opinions on this but will refrain until others have commented.

8

Is the YMCA now a concience matter?.....

by Aussie Oz in

the following is a little exchange on facebook i had, me playing devils advocate.

now, i am well aware after a search of the wt library 08 that the wbts saw no problem using ymca pools to do baptisms in the 1950s, and then in the 1979 had the big article saying a jw cannot join the y. so is this guy wrong, or has it changed?.

you wroteon january 9, 2010 at 8:25pm.

drew sagan

My wife was DF'd for joining the YMCA a few years back so let me give you our perspective.

As MissingLink pointed out you can "exercise your christian conscience" and join the Y, but the results of the choice are far from certain.

The question is, do the Elders feel a need to bring you into compliance with official Watchtower law? In me and my wife's case, the YMCA was used to try and force us back to meetings (we had not attended for about 4-6 months). Had we joined while we were faithful members, we may never had face official WT sanctions because of the choice. But because we stopped attending under suspicions of apostacy, the YMCA issue gave the Elders something to officially charge us with.

I think it is important to view Elders as enforcers. Sometimes enforces go "by the book" to force compliance and sometimes they do not. This does not fit the image the Watchtower projects regarding uniform obedience to the "faithful slave", but it surely is the reality of the situation (as it is with anybody in charge of enforcement of a particular law or rule)